Feathercoin Kickstarter Round 2

aysyr

[color=navy][b]Ideas Boards[/b][/color]

[b]1. How long should people have to get feedback on their idea eg 3 days? 7 Days?[/b]
I think depending on how big the project is, anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks depending on how unanimous the opinions on the project are.

[b]2. Should they have to raise a deposit? If so how much?[/b]
5% - 10%, depending on how reliable it looks that the project would be finished. The more risk investor’s face, the higher the deposit should be to give confidence. I deposit should also be partly suggested by those who are interested that post feedback on their thread.

[b]3. Should there be a format to the pitch, i.e. Brief Summary, Description of Problem, Solution?[/b]
Yes… everything from the initial ideas, it’s purpose, planned steps towards completing the project, and how the money is going to be used in those steps. Estimated costs of steps or percentage of donations going to different steps would be nice too.

[b]4. How should people qualify for the Projects Board? Should there be a panel of judges?[/b]
For project judging, I think it should be a mix of both a judge’s decision as well as a poll in the project’s original thread. In the poll people can maybe vote for their confidence of the project. Either have 100% confidence, 75%, 50%, 25%, etc. Or something descriptive like “Good Idea, good plan”, “Good idea, plan could be better”, “Good idea, too much startup price”, etc.

[color=navy][b]Projects Boards[/b][/color]

[b]1. Should there be mods like @T4rQu1N who watch each project and keep people held to deadlines?[/b]
Like Kevlar said in the original thread, a projects judge/treasurer would be nice

[b]2. On what condition should people lose their deposits? E.g. If they make the deadline but fail to deliver on what they proposed? OR If they fail to reach deadline.[/b]
I think it should be based on the investors’ opinion. Like they can decide whether to give them an extension (perhaps 25% of original time) depending on how far from original offering the project ended up being, proved progress, what still needs to be done, etc.

[b]3. Could we do a 3 strikes and you’re out rule to take the edge off?[/b]
As above

[b]4. If the deposit is lost how should the FTC be distributed? Given out randomly to community members with a Reddit style Tipbot? Given to someone else in Projects Forum as investment?[/b]
I guess half can go to either cause. Also maybe some can go into a pot that’s used to get people to adopt Feathercoin, whether for certain businesses who want to try it as a rewards system, giving it to some newcomers, charities, etc.

chrisj

aysyr thanks so much man I will add yours the summary.

Kevlar

[quote name=“chrisj” post=“30084” timestamp=“1380667432”]
[b]2. On what condition should people lose their deposits? E.g. If they make the deadline but fail to deliver on what they proposed? OR If they fail to reach deadline.[/b]
chrisj if they fail to reach the deadline
[/quote]

This doesn’t make any sense, since they already GET the money at the start of the project. If they don’t get their money until the end of the project, then this is a bounty, not a kickstart.

[quote]
[b]4. If the deposit is lost how should the FTC be distributed? Given out randomly to community members with a Reddit style Tipbot? Given to someone else in Projects Forum as investment?[/b]
chrisj I think the deposit should be given back in to the community with a tip bot
[/quote]

So they put their money down, then they fail to get funding, so they lose their money? That’s a steep penalty for trying to raise funds! :(

[quote]
[url=http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php/topic,3687.msg29451.html#msg29451]corather[/url] likes the idea of stock ownership similar to [url=http://cryptostocks.com]http://cryptostocks.com[/url], so maybe we could have Feathercoinstocks.com?
[/quote]

Ok… but if you’re going to do this, it’s not a Kickstarter any more, it’s an angel investment. And if your going to do angel investments, I’d like my points about [url=http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php/topic,3687.msg29556.html#msg29556]why that’s a horrible idea for everyone involved[/url] addressed.

svennand

[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“30128” timestamp=“1380731403”]
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3883.msg30084#msg30084 date=1380667432]
[b]2. On what condition should people lose their deposits? E.g. If they make the deadline but fail to deliver on what they proposed? OR If they fail to reach deadline.[/b]
chrisj if they fail to reach the deadline
[/quote]

This doesn’t make any sense, since they already GET the money at the start of the project. If they don’t get their money until the end of the project, then this is a bounty, not a kickstart.

[quote]
[b]4. If the deposit is lost how should the FTC be distributed? Given out randomly to community members with a Reddit style Tipbot? Given to someone else in Projects Forum as investment?[/b]
chrisj I think the deposit should be given back in to the community with a tip bot
[/quote]

So they put their money down, then they fail to get funding, so they lose their money? That’s a steep penalty for trying to raise funds! :(

[/quote]

I agree on theese arguments.
Kickstarter is to get people an capital to actually achive their idea, this means they need the funds during development phase. Without this we can not call it a kickstarter…

If the “kickstarter sum” isnt achived the project should just be scraped and the deposit be transfered back to the person coming with the suggestion.
Any other would just seem we punish people with ideas for not having “good enough” ideas.

chrisj

[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“30128” timestamp=“1380731403”]
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3883.msg30084#msg30084 date=1380667432]
[b]2. On what condition should people lose their deposits? E.g. If they make the deadline but fail to deliver on what they proposed? OR If they fail to reach deadline.[/b]
chrisj if they fail to reach the deadline
[/quote]

This doesn’t make any sense, since they already GET the money at the start of the project. If they don’t get their money until the end of the project, then this is a bounty, not a kickstart.

[quote]
[b]4. If the deposit is lost how should the FTC be distributed? Given out randomly to community members with a Reddit style Tipbot? Given to someone else in Projects Forum as investment?[/b]
chrisj I think the deposit should be given back in to the community with a tip bot
[/quote]

So they put their money down, then they fail to get funding, so they lose their money? That’s a steep penalty for trying to raise funds! :(
[/quote]

The deposit is what they put down during the ideas stage, and can only be taken away [i]after[/i] they have already made it to the Project stage and they fail to deliver on their project. You would of course not lose your money if you failed to get funding, that would be a bit harsh :)

As I cast my mind back when I first started thinking about this is was more about holding people accountable rather than pure play funding to get business off the ground. And I agree I wouldn’t want it to be a Angel investment.

Nothing is written in stone here yet that was the whole point of the discussion.

Kevlar

[quote name=“chrisj” post=“30134” timestamp=“1380736665”]
The deposit is what they put down during the ideas stage, and can only be taken away [i]after[/i] they have already made it to the Project stage and they fail to deliver on their project. You would of course not lose your money if you failed to get funding, that would be a bit harsh :)
[/quote]

I still don’t get it.

They put their deposit down. Fundraising begins. Either they reach their goal, and they get funded, which means they get their deposit back plus the funds, OR they don’t reach their goal, and they get their deposit back. Much later, they do or do not deliver. How are you going to “not give them their deposit back” when you already gave it back to them at the start of the project?

chrisj

[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“30136” timestamp=“1380737717”]
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3883.msg30134#msg30134 date=1380736665]
The deposit is what they put down during the ideas stage, and can only be taken away [i]after[/i] they have already made it to the Project stage and they fail to deliver on their project. You would of course not lose your money if you failed to get funding, that would be a bit harsh :)
[/quote]

I still don’t get it.

They put their deposit down. Fundraising begins. Either they reach their goal, and they get funded, which means they get their deposit back plus the funds, OR they don’t reach their goal, and they get their deposit back. Much later, they do or do not deliver. How are you going to “not give them their deposit back” when you already gave it back to them at the start of the project?
[/quote]

I think I am confusing myself a bit now. Originally the deposit was there to make sure people hit their deadlines once they were in the Project stage. So I will do X by Friday, and if they don’t make it they lose the deposit. It’s to make sure people do the things they say they are going to do and it could help raise confidence in people unsure of whether to give funding. If they see the person they are funding has skin in the game then it might encourage them.

aysyr

[quote]
[b]4. If the deposit is lost how should the FTC be distributed? Given out randomly to community members with a Reddit style Tipbot? Given to someone else in Projects Forum as investment?[/b]
chrisj I think the deposit should be given back in to the community with a tip bot
[/quote]

My mistake, in my earlier post I had the idea that the deposit in this case was the funding raised by the community towards the project, and this was to determine what would happen to the funding in case the project failed.

Kevlar

[quote name=“chrisj” post=“30138” timestamp=“1380741343”]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=3883.msg30136#msg30136 date=1380737717]
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3883.msg30134#msg30134 date=1380736665]
The deposit is what they put down during the ideas stage, and can only be taken away [i]after[/i] they have already made it to the Project stage and they fail to deliver on their project. You would of course not lose your money if you failed to get funding, that would be a bit harsh :)
[/quote]

I still don’t get it.

They put their deposit down. Fundraising begins. Either they reach their goal, and they get funded, which means they get their deposit back plus the funds, OR they don’t reach their goal, and they get their deposit back. Much later, they do or do not deliver. How are you going to “not give them their deposit back” when you already gave it back to them at the start of the project?
[/quote]

I think I am confusing myself a bit now. Originally the deposit was there to make sure people hit their deadlines once they were in the Project stage. So I will do X by Friday, and if they don’t make it they lose the deposit. It’s to make sure people do the things they say they are going to do and it could help raise confidence in people unsure of whether to give funding. If they see the person they are funding has skin in the game then it might encourage them.
[/quote]

If they’re in the project phase, their work is done until they receive (or fail to raise) funding. They’ve already made it through the idea phase and been accepted for crowdfunding. All that remains is to get people to fund the project. The skin in the game is their deposit, and it ensures they don’t start at 0 funding, which never looks good.

What hasn’t been discussed is the fee schedule. I propose 2% for the judges/admins/treasurer. That means if they don’t get funding, they get their deposit back -2%. If they do, they get all the funds raised, -2%. This ensures that everyone is properly incentivized to fund the project, including the person who put down their deposit.

chrisj

[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“30141” timestamp=“1380742247”]
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3883.msg30138#msg30138 date=1380741343]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=3883.msg30136#msg30136 date=1380737717]
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3883.msg30134#msg30134 date=1380736665]
The deposit is what they put down during the ideas stage, and can only be taken away [i]after[/i] they have already made it to the Project stage and they fail to deliver on their project. You would of course not lose your money if you failed to get funding, that would be a bit harsh :)
[/quote]

I still don’t get it.

They put their deposit down. Fundraising begins. Either they reach their goal, and they get funded, which means they get their deposit back plus the funds, OR they don’t reach their goal, and they get their deposit back. Much later, they do or do not deliver. How are you going to “not give them their deposit back” when you already gave it back to them at the start of the project?
[/quote]

I think I am confusing myself a bit now. Originally the deposit was there to make sure people hit their deadlines once they were in the Project stage. So I will do X by Friday, and if they don’t make it they lose the deposit. It’s to make sure people do the things they say they are going to do and it could help raise confidence in people unsure of whether to give funding. If they see the person they are funding has skin in the game then it might encourage them.
[/quote]

If they’re in the project phase, their work is done until they receive (or fail to raise) funding. They’ve already made it through the idea phase and been accepted for crowdfunding. All that remains is to get people to fund the project. The skin in the game is their deposit, and it ensures they don’t start at 0 funding, which never looks good.

What hasn’t been discussed is the fee schedule. I propose 2% for the judges/admins/treasurer. That means if they don’t get funding, they get their deposit back -2%. If they do, they get all the funds raised, -2%. This ensures that everyone is properly incentivized to fund the project, including the person who put down their deposit.
[/quote]

Yep fee schedule is important and we haven’t discussed it yet. I like what you are proposing and will add it to the summary here.

I have come down with manflu so want to get some rest but we can talk on skype about this as well because you are coming up with lots of good suggestions.

chrisj

I made [url=http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php/topic,3907.msg30455.html#msg30455]this comment here[/url] to do with our prioritisation and organisation and felt it was relevant to this topic.

corather

I have been so busy with work, oh my stars. I may not know wth I’m talking about when it comes to these kinds of things but holy crap the real smart people above me in this post have brought together a powerful framework.

I should be in bed, but instead I’m posting nonsense on feathercoin forum.

chrisj

[quote name=“corather” post=“30681” timestamp=“1381205923”]
I have been so busy with work, oh my stars. I may not know wth I’m talking about when it comes to these kinds of things but holy crap the real smart people above me in this post have brought together a powerful framework.

I should be in bed, but instead I’m posting nonsense on feathercoin forum.
[/quote]

Are you feeling okay mate? I think you should get some rest :)

T4rQu1N

Apologies, am super busy at work. Here’s my updates to the running conversation!

Ideas Boards

1. How long should people have to get feedback on their idea eg 3 days? 7 Days?
T4rQu1N - 7-10 Days; 7 days just feels too short to get it publicised and catch everyone.

2. Should they have to raise a deposit? If so how much?
T4rQu1N - 1-5% depending on the total asked. If they ask for more, they’ve got to put more up. I like the idea of a minimum 250FTC

3. Should there be a format to the pitch, i.e. Brief Summary, Description of Problem, Solution?
T4rQu1N Yes based on the Business Model Canvas ([b]as a guideline[/b]). The pitch needs to be given to the admin panel before they put it up. Then they can filter out the ideas with little or no substance. When they post their ‘Kickstarter’ call for crowd funding, they don’t need to use the Business Model Canvas, it can be purely descriptive of the product/service. I just think as a judge, I would want to see that they have thought the task ahead of them through properly, so that we have some layer of scam avoidance.

4. How should people qualify for the Projects Board? Should there be a panel of judges?
T4rQu1N - Yes, absolutely, as above.

Projects Boards
1. Should there be mods like @T4rQu1N who watch each project and keep people held to deadlines?
T4rQu1N - Yes, and a treasurer too. I like the idea of this being a proper role, which people have to apply for. It shows commitment.

2. On what condition should people lose their deposits? E.g. If they make the deadline but fail to deliver on what they proposed? OR If they fail to reach deadline.
T4rQu1N - Nobody looses their deposit. If a project isn’t funded, the escrow provider gives everyone back their backing, including the person who posted the idea. If the project is funded, and the person defaults on their delivery…then we have a problem. And I’m not sure how to deal with that. I think perhaps a payment schedule with some key milestones would work well… ie. the project lead works with the mentor to define some key deliverables, and when they hit them, the receive the allocated funding. That way we encourage development and minimise risk?

3. Could we do a 3 strikes and you’re out rule to take the edge off?
T4rQu1N - I would say zero tolerance, but if a project is coming along well, and hits some unexpected delays then I think it should go to a community vote/mentor’s judgement. If something doesn’t get finished, the project should be forfeit and owned by the community to be publicly developed if required? There are a few options here…

4. If the deposit is lost how should the FTC be distributed? Given out randomly to community members with a Reddit style Tipbot? Given to someone else in Projects Forum as investment?
T4rQu1N - As has been previously discussed, I don’t think anyone will loose their deposit per say, because the funding mechanism doesn’t allow it to get to that stage. That said, if someone defaults on their milestones and decides to give up, then the pot should be divided amongst the backers, so they don’t loose everything!

Other thoughts
T4rQu1N expressed concern with Intellectual Property and someone copying the idea. (

Kevlr believes very strongly that this is not angel investment, you are funding a product not bankrolling a business. That is why he thinks crowd funding has been so successful because you are just connecting buyer and seller and eliminating equity. So there would be no point in having NDA (Non Disclosure Agreements).

corather likes the idea of stock ownership similar to [url=http://cryptostocks.com]http://cryptostocks.com[/url], so maybe we could have Feathercoinstocks.com? mnstrcck thinks it’s worth discussing and wants to know if we can improve on it?

T4rQu1N - I’m happy to accept this as is for now. We can deal with any issues as and when they arrise. I do like the idea of matching people with ideas, to people with skills to develop in partnership, though I appreciate that is separate from what we are trying to do here.

Fee Schedule
Kevlar proposes there should be fees that the judges/admins of Feathercoin Forum take.

T4rQu1N - Agreed, 2% is fair, if only to support the running and maintenance of the site and the time invested by the mentor.

chrisj

[quote name=“T4rQu1N” post=“30844” timestamp=“1381422334”]
Apologies, am super busy at work. Here’s my updates to the running conversation!