Difficulty Discussion - Fork Update - Bushstar
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2538” timestamp=“1368282210”]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=363.msg2532#msg2532 date=1368281144]
Fair enough. So what are you doing now to announce/promote the fork?I can hold out for a while longer but i would be greatly reassured if I see you announce something official not only to the community here but across bitcointalk etc.
[/quote]As soon as I can I will announce the update version across the forums and contact all pools and services to update their daemons. We have to engage with everyone to make this as seamless a transition as possible.
[/quote]WeMineFTC.com is ready to upgrade w/e you want :) Just letus know :)
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I’ll upgrade as well. I have a feeling litecoin is about to get the same treatment. The price will drop if it stays below BTC profitability for too long.
Bushstar, can you move the difficulty code into a library? It would make it much easier for people to upgrade.
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[b]Here’s how Freicoin is handling it …[/b]
[url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202250.0]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202250.0[/url]
Freicoin - Difficulty Adjustment Algorithm updated [HARD-FORK @ block #28476]
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Add the new difficulty adjustment algorithm, which replaces the simple
average over 2016 blocks with a faster-acting 144-tap Parks and
McClellan FIR filter, and adjustments every 9 blocks with a gain of
0.1025 and limiter of 1.055. -
Prepare for deployment of difficulty adjustment filter to production
network by adding a threshold block after which the new difficulty
adjustment algorithm takes over, for both mainnet and testnet. -
Added Python simulator of new difficulty adjustment algorithm.
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Fixed two related bugs in the freicoin “accounts” system. First, the
‘move’ RPC command now generates AccountingEntry records with the
current reference height rather than refheight=0. Second, the
‘listaccounts’ RPC command properly time-value adjusts AccountingEntry
records. -
Fix unwanted transaction de-prioritization. Now calculates both inputs
and outputs of a transaction based on the transaction’s reference
height, as opposed to the current block height, which was previously
being used for the inputs. This was resulting in smaller (or even
negative) fees for the purposes of priority calculation, thereby
resulting in transactions that had trouble getting on the block chain. -
Change nVersion on Freicoin Foundation addresses to testnet format, so
that budgets validate correctly. This enables mining on testnet. -
Modified output of ‘getblocktemplate’ RPC command to include a ‘budget’
array specifying budgetary requirements.
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Block 32760 is only 66 blocks away, any update on when the new version will be released?
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I may have worked out an innovation so far reaching that Bitcoin may want to copy it from us.
Once that happens FTC’s karma will be off the charts.
If I’m right, after we clear up this current issue, we’ll be able to prevent stampedes throughout the cryptocoin universe AND make 51% attacks virtually impossible. Not even when there is a DDoS in progress.
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[quote name=“archminer” post=“2690” timestamp=“1368341296”]
Block 32760 is only 66 blocks away, any update on when the new version will be released?
[/quote]There is not enough time to get it in for 32760. The hash rate seems to go up dramatically at times and every body needs to upgrade before we hit the threshold block. We can set whatever block we want in the code.
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=363.msg2670#msg2670 date=1368315013]
[b]Here’s how Freicoin is handling it …[/b][url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202250.0]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202250.0[/url]
Freicoin - Difficulty Adjustment Algorithm updated [HARD-FORK @ block #28476]
-
Add the new difficulty adjustment algorithm, which replaces the simple
average over 2016 blocks with a faster-acting 144-tap Parks and
McClellan FIR filter, and adjustments every 9 blocks with a gain of
0.1025 and limiter of 1.055. -
Prepare for deployment of difficulty adjustment filter to production
network by adding a threshold block after which the new difficulty
adjustment algorithm takes over, for both mainnet and testnet. -
Added Python simulator of new difficulty adjustment algorithm.
-
Fixed two related bugs in the freicoin “accounts” system. First, the
‘move’ RPC command now generates AccountingEntry records with the
current reference height rather than refheight=0. Second, the
‘listaccounts’ RPC command properly time-value adjusts AccountingEntry
records. -
Fix unwanted transaction de-prioritization. Now calculates both inputs
and outputs of a transaction based on the transaction’s reference
height, as opposed to the current block height, which was previously
being used for the inputs. This was resulting in smaller (or even
negative) fees for the purposes of priority calculation, thereby
resulting in transactions that had trouble getting on the block chain. -
Change nVersion on Freicoin Foundation addresses to testnet format, so
that budgets validate correctly. This enables mining on testnet. -
Modified output of ‘getblocktemplate’ RPC command to include a ‘budget’
array specifying budgetary requirements.
[/quote]
I was looking at this earlier. This is another solution that I need to investigate.
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Do you see big spikes in hash rates, we can only see the stats on your main page over the last +400 blocks in total
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Why do we stop retargeting at 1/4the original with 40% cap? I understand you like the 4x similarility; but is it possible to faster retargeting with higher caps?
Also, maybe you can put the cap at 41.4% (so that it is 4x after the original retargeting).
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[quote name=“Fernandez” post=“2712” timestamp=“1368349304”]
Why do we stop retargeting at 1/4the original with 40% cap? I understand you like the 4x similarility; but is it possible to faster retargeting with higher caps?Also, maybe you can put the cap at 41.4% (so that it is 4x after the original retargeting).
[/quote]Take a look at Freicoin. Difficulty adjustments every 9 blocks. It will be very interesting to see how their filter works in practice.
We’ll go with 41.4% as this will probably appeal to others that we do not deviate too much from Litecoin. Thanks for contributing :)
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We, the pool operators, you need anything from us? What shall we spread to people?
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2714” timestamp=“1368350408”]
[quote author=Fernandez link=topic=363.msg2712#msg2712 date=1368349304]
Why do we stop retargeting at 1/4the original with 40% cap? I understand you like the 4x similarility; but is it possible to faster retargeting with higher caps?Also, maybe you can put the cap at 41.4% (so that it is 4x after the original retargeting).
[/quote]Take a look at Freicoin. Difficulty adjustments every 9 blocks. It will be very interesting to see how their filter works in practice.
We’ll go with 41.4% as this will probably appeal to others that we do not deviate too much from Litecoin. Thanks for contributing :)
[/quote]Thank you for all your efforts. Its great to see the developer making such a huge effort.
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[quote name=“WeTradeCoins” post=“2717” timestamp=“1368351049”]
We, the pool operators, you need anything from us? What shall we spread to people?
[/quote]Just hold fire for now. We do not want to rush anything though I am as keen as everyone to get a solution in place. Seeing that Freicoin has addressed this issue it shows that this is an accepted problem. What works for the big coins does not necessarily work for the smaller coins. This is why we need alternative cryptocurrencies. Smaller coins have to come up with solutions for issues that would never occur to bigger coins.
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I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.
My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.
Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).
I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin :)
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[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.
Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).
I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin :)
[/quote]The main people who need to switch will be the pools, once users start realising that their wallet can not send coins, they too will soon want to update, anyone downloading from mirrors deserve all they get tbh (virus’s & trojans-r-us) - There were 3 main links that I know of and I’m sure bush will update those when it is time.
The next drop will also make the next difficulty rise further, and another influx of quickly mined coins to be poured on an already fragile economy.
What you have to remember with Bitcoin is all alts are priced against it, bitcoin profitability is always 100%, maybe that is the problem, as is pricing Bitcoin against Fiat :-\
Also a lot of longterm GPU miners of Bitcoin have been pushed out by the introduction of cheaper to run ASICS, there is a lot of hashing power out there to support the ‘right’ coin.
I only wish I knew all the answers, but I do have great faith in bush, having followed other alts and their supposedly supportive developers.
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[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22.
[/quote]Just wanted this opportunity to point out that difficulty can drop to 47 max. 4x is the jump limit.
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[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.
[/quote]The problem is that primary purpose of the coin are money transactions. Right now featherc is slower than any competition, although originally should be much faster.
If we want featherc accepted and used by merchants and public, ie successful, it must do its main purpose well in the first place. Its not the case right now. Thats why we should act soon, there are other coins out there, waiting for our failure. -
[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.
Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).
I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin :)
[/quote]The difficulty skyrocketed because of continouse new asics, which gives alot of computation power vs electrisity, just look at bitminter, recently a new user came there with 6,5million hash! no wonder the difficulty skyrockets. However so does the average hashrate of each user…
When it comes to scrypt based coins all the people mining bitcoins are now fleeing that market due to low profit vs high power usage, problem is that a large number of those people are not faithfull to a particular coin, but rather keep jumping coin to whatever of them has the biggest earnings.
Feathercoin experienced that with network hashrate peaking above 5Ghash, then when the retarget were set in to motion it wasnt as profitable to mine feathercoin and the miners went on to mine litecoin again since the difficulty there had dropped. hashrate for feathercoin falled to under 1Ghash, but the difficulty stayed the same… since the retarget time was 2016 blocks. the retarget time is WAY to high, making people abandon feathercoin.
If the difficulty problem would not be fixed, the same problem would happen again, making those poor “faithfull” donors that had worked their ass of getting trough those 21 days of retarget time have to go trough it one more time…
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The more I consider this the more I realise that this needs to be done. We have seen other coins go through successful forks so it can be done. If we do not then when the difficulty goes down we’ll be mined to another super high difficulty and end up in this situation again. Freicoin has now come to this conclusion. I do not want to wait many months for a solution and this is still easier to do when we are young.
The problem with IE6 is that people can still use Google and check their emails. Plus you still have some very large legacy systems that do not work with anything other than IE6. I came across a system where people still have to use Netscape Navigator :)
Anyway, let’s not get too divided on this issue as we all need to stand together.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2742” timestamp=“1368359096”]
The more I consider this the more I realise that this needs to be done. We have seen other coins go through successful forks so it can be done. If we do not then when the difficulty goes down we’ll be mined to another super high difficulty and end up in this situation again. Freicoin has now come to this conclusion. I do not want to wait many months for a solution and this is still easier to do when we are young.The problem with IE6 is that people can still use Google and check their emails. Plus you still have some very large legacy systems that do not work with anything other than IE6. I came across a system where people still have to use Netscape Navigator :)
Anyway, let’s not get too divided on this issue as we all need to stand together.
[/quote]Can’t agree more. And I agree that you should take your time to come up with the best solution. However in the meanwhile please update the stats page to tell people that you care, and you are preparing a solution, and therefore the next difficulty adjustment is not months away. This will give people confidence, and it will help spread the word that a new version is upcoming, so that when it actually comes out more people will know about it and the transition will be more smooth.
IMHO you should also link to the life support thread in the stats page, to show people not only the devs care, the community cares too.
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Lots if discussion. Any time frames even estimates yet? FTC a out to hit trip 0s.
